Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, May 7
2003 Volume 02 : Number 148
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 07:24:50 -0500
From: "Richard Fennell" <
realmstl@charter.net>
Subject: Fw:
Team3S: Need help with diagnosing Intermittent LOUD engine knock
It sounds to me like a bad wrist pin or a broken valve.
I'd first pull
the cams and check the valves. If that turns out OK, I'd pull the head and
check the pistons.
Rich
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Anderson" <
joelpa@famvid.com>
Sent: Monday, May
05, 2003 6:23 AM
> We purchased a '95 VR4 with spun #2 rod bearing as a
father/son
> 'bonding' project. After a new crankshaft, bearings,
machine shop
> work etc, she started right up and we were introduced to
lifter tick.
> No big deal. However there was a slight intermittent
knock from the
> rear cylinder bank. Just not able to pin it down.
Then at a few
> hundred miles we pulled up to a stop sign and the engine
died. Odd. A
> few more stops with engine dieing and we got out to
listen and there
> was a BIG knocking coming from the rear head.
You could feel it if
> you placed your hand on the air plenum.
>
Towed her back to the garage. The knock was so severe I feared a spun
> bearing so I pulled the oil pan and inspected the crank and rod
>
bearings, all are fine. Pulled rear valve cover and could hear
a
> clunk/tick as the engine was rotated by hand. Thought a
valve
> was sticking till I realized it happened with the cam
rotated
> 180 degrees. Put a wrench on the cam gear bolt just as a
reality
> check to assure it was tight, pulled a bit and confirmed.
Now
> the tick is gone and I'm at a loss. Anyone have
experience
> like this? Suggestions?
>
>
Regards,
> Joel Anderson
> '95 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 13:00:58 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Is the ECU Wiring harness the same for 91 & 92 VR-4???
>> I've pored over my '94 Stealth Manual twice (and checked Jeff
Lucius'
>> pages of the ECM from his ARM-1 install page), and I can't
find a
>> pinout on the ECU for the knock sensor!
Hint: p 14A-48, 14A-210 (from Vinny's Manual on CD).
Or, in *any* year service manual look in the "fuel" chapter and at the
circuit diagrams and at the specific page for "knock sensor" in the "on-vehicle
inspection of MFI components".
I do not list the knock sensor on my web page
because almost no usable information concerning real engine detonation can
be obtained by monitoring the voltage at this terminal.
>> My installer will NOT work on the car until he
>> is
positive which wires go WHERE!
The DOHC and SOHC ECM terminal assignments are not all the same for these
two engine types for 1991-1993. However, all DOHC 1991-1993 models have the same
ECU terminal assignments. Don't believe me? Just look at the service manuals.
Note, however, that the service manuals do have mistakes in them (for example,
some of the O2 sensor terminal assignments on some charts for some years). And
contrary to suggestions by some Team3S members, Mitsubishi did not LIE to us,
they simply made errors, which is sadly quite common in instruction manuals.
Careful study on my part of the manuals and of the operation of my 1992 Stealth
has revealed some of these. Additional ones probably remain.
If you are your installer do not trust the service manuals, or my web pages
(hey, I make mistakes and typos also), he/she can determine the correctness of
the terminal assignment by simply unplugging the device in question from the
wiring harness and observing the voltage at the terminal in question.
As always, corrections and comments concerning my web pages are
welcome.
------------------------------
When was the last time you had a 4-wheel alignment? You might
consider having that done in conjunction with the new tires ...
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tyson Varosyan (E-mail)
[mailto:tigran@tigran.com]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 9:05 PM
Yea, you are the 3rd to suggest them. I guess I will look into them. My
ONLY issue with the Kumhos was the road noise. Living in the Seattle are, it
rains a lot up here and the water channel on the Kumhos was AWESOME! I had some
Yokos (don't remember which) that came with the car when I first bought it. I
cant count how many times I spun them out! Matter of fact, nearly cost me my car
like the second week of ownership. I will look into them. If wet traction is
good, I will take the advice and get them.
Thanks,
Tyson
------------------------------
It's worth taking to the dealership for the transfer case recall, but the
clutch problem can be handled just as well by a clutch specialty shop.
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: cody
[mailto:overclck@satx.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 9:27 PM
San Antonio???? THAT'S WHERE I AM!!!!
But, I wouldn't trust a dealership around here with changing the windshield
wiper fluid... That's why I do my own work... Sorry, no personal
experiences, just reports of warpage and bad work at almost every dealership in
town... But then again, that's your average dealership at least...
If I were to try any, I get along pretty good with the parts manager over at
West Loop, but have no direct experience with service...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Have you replaced the battery cables yet?
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Tanenbaum
[mailto:gtg509d@mail.gatech.edu]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 9:51 PM
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all your advice with getting my car in shape. It seems
as though
I have some overall electrical problem with my car. First my
computer went - I
replaced it with a reman. one. Then the TPS was
giving me fits - replaced the
TPS and the plug that plugs into it.
Upon inspection, the wires leading to the
TPS are corroded. At first
the car worked much better, but now it's back to
hesitating/jerking under
acceleration and rpms jump around with no throttle.
Also, now each
time I turn on the car, the electrical system seems to have
reset itself -
the air comes on, the clock is at 1:00, and the radio stations
are
unprogrammed.
Other electrical issues I've been having are the ECS (it flashes and
switches
back and forth, especially when it's wet outside) and the SRS light
won't go
off. I don't know if these would all be symptoms of one
problem or not, but
figured I'd share them anyway.
Would something like a faulty ground cause these types of problems?
Thank you
so much.
Michael
'91 Stealth R/T (N/A)
------------------------------
>From: Steve Chen
>Date: 5/5/03
> I am probably one of the few who is actually trying to install
the
> active aero front air dam. I bought the car without the front
under
> cover. I have purchased all the required parts as listed in
the
> service manual. I have installed all the parts except the
final
> step of mounting the front under cover to the air dam link
assembly.
> It appears that I will have to remove the front bumper face
in
> order to align the front under cover. Is this correct?
The
> service manual doesn't give any indication one way or the
>
other. The local dealer mechanic only says that he hates to work
>
on these cars and doesn't have much experience with them. Are
>
there any links or pictures that can give me guidance? Thanks.
Steve, there's no need to remove anything. Lift the front of the car off
the ground and support it on jack stands. Cycle the active-aero switch so that
the air dam would be in the down (on) position. Position yourself so that you
are in front of the car and facing the bottom lip of the bumper lower face.
Notice the black metal tabs that protrude downward just behind the face. Now
position the aero dam in front of you in the same orientation as it will be on
the car. Notice the flanges with the metal plates riveted to them. Grasp the dam
and tilt it as much as you can so that the flanges are facing upward. Now force
the flanges up and between the front face and the protruding metal tabs. Do this
across the entire front face of the dam. Now it should be hanging there with the
front in place and the back edge dragging the ground.
Now crawl under the car and position yourself so that you are behind the
air dam and looking forward toward the underside of the front bumper on the
passenger side. Remove the access cover that's held on with 4 bolts (it's the
piece that's about 4" x 6"). With one hand, grasp one of the bolts and insert it
through one of the two mounting holes near the front of the air damn. With the
other hand, reach through the access hole in the air dam and grasp the mounting
hanger that's dangling from the shaft assembly. Now align the hanger so you can
thread the bolt into it. Repeat this procedure on the driver's side. Now that
you've got the bolts started, insert the second bolt into each of the hangers
and tighten all 4 bolts.
Now replace the access covers and all the other bolts that hold the air dam
on (except for the ones that broke off when you were removing them!), and fasten
the inner fender mud guards to the air dam using those plastic clips.
The first time it takes a while. But after you've done it a few times, it's
no big deal.
Jeff W.
Belleville, MI
'92 VR4
------------------------------
Absolutely not. You do not have to remove the front bumper to do any
work on the front air dam. You should be able to do it all yourself without a
mechanic, and certainly not one that hates working on these cars and has little
experience with them.
Just attach the air dam to the little brackets and let 'er rip!
Chuck Willis
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steven Chen
[mailto:fourchens@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:10 PM
From: Steve Chen
Date: 5/5/03
I am probably one of the few who is actually trying to install the active
aero front air dam. I bought the car without the front under cover.
I have purchased all the required parts as listed in the service manual. I
have installed all the parts except the final step of mounting the front under
cover to the air dam link assembly. It appears that I will have to remove the
front bumper face in order to align the front under cover. Is this
correct? The service manual doesn't give any indication one way or the
other. The local dealer mechanic only says that he hates to work on these
cars and doesn't have much experience with them. Are there any links or
pictures that can give me guidance? Thanks.
------------------------------
IMHO, 0.
You'd have to -want- to buy wheels with closed enough faces to prevent
that.
On Tue, 6 May 2003, ERIC PIERCE PIERCE wrote:
> I purchased the Moda R6 rims myself from Tire Rack. I also got the
> Yokohoma AVS ES100's. I am very pleased with how they handle.
>
> Just curious, how much does having the open rims help with venting for
> brakes?
- ---
Now offering replacement
Toyota/Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/SAAB/Volvo parts Where do you buy YOUR brakes
from?
orders@speedtoys.com Maybe
I can help..asking is free. :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
I was wondering why it was necessary to remove the crank pulley to do the
timing belt service ? I am not sure how I am going to get that bad boy off
by myself.
------------------------------
Well, I just contacted Miller Tools and you are not going to believe what
the end yoke holder tool now costs. It is now going for $57 ???? I
had them double check just to make sure, and that is what it is selling
for.
The timing belt tensioner tool is going for $17.47. So that one isn't
to bad.
That is crazy for a one time tool, although I am sure it is a major helper,
I can't afford that.
Just wanted to let you all know.
Anthony Melillo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:44:55 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 60k service question, sorry again
Because you can't remove the lower timing belt cover, and will never be
able to time the crank gear, with the pulley in place.
- -----Original Message-----
From: anthonymelillo
[mailto:anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 2:41
PM
I was wondering why it was necessary to remove the crank pulley to do the
timing belt service ? I am not sure how I am going to get that bad boy off
by myself.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:50:30 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 60k tools
I made one myself using two pieces of 1" steel bracing. Here's how I
did it. I took cut a piece of steel bracing about 10 inches long, and
another about 4-5 inches long. I drilled a hole about 1" from each end of
the small piece. I drilled a hole about 4" from the end of the large
piece, and about 1" from the same end of the large piece. Then, using
regular 5/16 carriage bolts, I bolted the two pieces together at the hole
that is 4" from the end, forming a "y" . I then put regular 1-1/2x5/16"
carriage bolts into the two holes that are 1" from the end. To use it, you
simply insert the bolts at the ends of the Y into the holes in the balancer and,
voila, you're very own end yoke holder. Cost of materials? Less than
$5.00.
- -----Original Message-----
From: anthonymelillo
[mailto:anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 2:40
PM
Well, I just contacted Miller Tools and you are not going to believe what
the end yoke holder tool now costs. It is now going for $57 ???? I
had them double check just to make sure, and that is what it is selling
for.
The timing belt tensioner tool is going for $17.47. So that one isn't
to bad.
That is crazy for a one time tool, although I am sure it is a major helper,
I can't afford that.
Just wanted to let you all know.
Anthony Melillo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 18:50:55 +0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: 60k service question, sorry again
> I was wondering why it was necessary to remove
> the crank
pulley to do the timing belt service?
> I am not sure how I am going to
get that bad
> boy off by myself.
You can't remove the big plastic timing belt cover without taking the crank
pulley off.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 17:15:25 -0500
From: Joel Anderson <
joelpa@famvid.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Diagnosing Intermittent LOUD engine knock, camshaft binding?
Greetings everyone,
We purchased a '95 VR4 with spun #2 rod bearing as a
father/son
'bonding' project. After a new crankshaft, bearings,
machine shop work etc,
she started right up and we were introduced to lifter
tick. No big deal.
However there was a slight intermittent knock
from the rear cylinder bank.
Just not able to pin it down. Then at a
few hundred miles we pulled up to
a stop sign and the engine died.
Odd. A few more stops with engine dieing
and we got out to listen and
there was a BIG knocking coming from the rear
head. You could feel it
if you placed your hand on the air plenum. Towed
her back to the
garage. The knock was so severe I feared a spun bearing so
I pulled
the oil pan and inspected the crank and rod bearings, all are
fine. Pulled rear valve cover and could hear a clunk/tick as the
engine
was rotated by hand. Thought a valve was sticking till I
realized it
happened with the cam rotated 180 degrees. Put a wrench on the
cam gear
bolt just as a reality check to assure it was tight, pulled a bit
and
confirmed. Now the tick is gone and I'm at a loss. Anyone
have experience
like this? Suggestions?
Regards,
Joel
Anderson
'95 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:50:30 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 60k tools
I made one myself using two pieces of 1" steel bracing. Here's how I
did it. I took cut a piece of steel bracing about 10 inches long, and
another about 4-5 inches long. I drilled a hole about 1" from each end of
the small piece. I drilled a hole about 4" from the end of the large
piece, and about 1" from the same end of the large piece. Then, using
regular 5/16 carriage bolts, I bolted the two pieces together at the hole
that is 4" from the end, forming a "y" . I then put regular 1-1/2x5/16"
carriage bolts into the two holes that are 1" from the end. To use it, you
simply insert the bolts at the ends of the Y into the holes in the balancer and,
voila, you're very own end yoke holder. Cost of materials? Less than
$5.00.
- -----Original Message-----
From: anthonymelillo
[mailto:anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 2:40
PM
Well, I just contacted Miller Tools and you are not going to believe what
the end yoke holder tool now costs. It is now going for $57 ???? I
had them double check just to make sure, and that is what it is selling
for.
The timing belt tensioner tool is going for $17.47. So that one isn't
to bad.
That is crazy for a one time tool, although I am sure it is a major helper,
I can't afford that.
Just wanted to let you all know.
Anthony Melillo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 17:15:25 -0500
From: Joel Anderson <
joelpa@famvid.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Diagnosing Intermittent LOUD engine knock, camshaft binding?
Greetings everyone,
We purchased a '95 VR4 with spun #2 rod bearing as a
father/son
'bonding' project. After a new crankshaft, bearings,
machine shop work etc,
she started right up and we were introduced to lifter
tick. No big deal.
However there was a slight intermittent knock
from the rear cylinder bank
Just not able to pin it down. Then at a
few hundred miles we pulled up to
a stop sign and the engine died.
Odd. A few more stops with engine dieing
and we got out to listen and
there was a BIG knocking coming from the rear
head. You could feel it
if you placed your hand on the air plenum. Towed
her back to the
garage. The knock was so severe I feared a spun bearing so
I pulled
the oil pan and inspected the crank and rod bearings, all are
fine. Pulled rear valve cover and could hear a clunk/tick as the
engine
was rotated by hand. Thought a valve was sticking till I
realized it
happened with the cam rotated 180 degrees. Put a wrench on the
cam gear
bolt just as a reality check to assure it was tight, pulled a bit
and
confirmed. Now the tick is gone and I'm at a loss. Anyone
have experience
like this? Suggestions?
Regards,
Joel
Anderson
'95 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:01:55 -0700
From: "Richard L. Barron" <
radanc@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: For
Sale
This will be my last post of this for a while but I still have the
following for sale if anyone is interested:
>From a 92 stealth TT:
2 stock 5 spoke rims (silver) alloy
stock front and back springs
2 9B
turbos
2 stock intercoolers
2 stock front calipers
2 stock front rotor
mounting hats
full front and back set of Goodridge steel braided lines with
attachment components 1 IHI RHF 55 ball bearing turbo 4 camshafts (Jack they're
yours if you still want them) 1 Walbro 341 HP pump (with kit now) (not used) 1
stock cat back exhaust
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 23:17:32 -0400
From: Vedran <
1994TT@comcast.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Dead engine!!!!
The engine in my 94 TT just turns but it does not fire at all.
It sounds like an electric motor, just turning. Could it be the injectors or
maybe the valves?? I have no idea. Thanks Ved 94 TT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:28:58 -0600
From: "Moe Prasad" <
mprasad@uswest.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dead engine!!!!
I think a few more details will help.
1: Is the engine actually turning (i.e belt moving) - If no,
could be just the starter
2: If the engine is turning, are you getting spark
to the plugs? If no, could be a number of things
It is hard to trouble shoot without more details.
Rgds
Moe
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Vedran" <
1994TT@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday,
May 06, 2003 9:17 PM
> The engine in my 94 TT just turns but it does not fire at
all. It
> sounds like an electric motor, just turning. Could
it be the
> injectors or maybe the valves?? I have no idea.
>
Thanks
> Ved
> 94 TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:18:28 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Some 60k Service tips (was 60K Tools)
Anthony: You mean hold it from turning while you're cranking on the
bolt? No, that's what the end yoke holder does. You'll be using one
hand to hold the end yoke holder, and the other hand to torque on the bolt with
your breaker bar. However, you will need a harmonic balancer puller to get
the balancer/pulley off the crank. If you don't have one, you usually can
rent one from a local parts shop for a few bucks.
I've been through this exercise, so if you have any questions or want some
advice, let me know. About the best advice that I can give is BE
PATIENT. Although taking everything apart is relatively easy, putting
everything back together is tedious. A few things to watch out for:
1. Line up all your timing marks BEFORE you cut your old belt off.
This will save you a lot of time getting the thing timed when you're ready to
put your new belt on. If the marks are off, turn the crank using a breaker
bar until everything is lined up.
2. BE CAREFUL when taking the old belt off, because the cam gears are
likely to be under spring load from the valves. They can snap back very
violently--probably enough to take your fingers off if they're in the wrong
place. My advice is this. You know how the service manual tells you to use
those spring paper clips around the cams when putting on your new belt?
Well, put them on your old belt too before you cut it off, and then cut it off
at the bottom near the crank gear. That will prevent applying pressure to
the cams and allowing them to snap back, and will keep the timing belt in place,
thus "locking" the cam gears in place. And do CUT your old belt off. It's
easier that way.
3. TAKE YOUR TIME with the auto tensioner. Even with the
special tool, getting the tensioner in spec is a pain in the ass. But
don't skimp on time and patience on this step because it can cost you your
motor. Make sure you follow all the steps: Align your timing marks,
back the crank gear off one tooth, put the belt on, tension it up, re-check your
marks, rotate the engine by hand two full times using the crank, let it sit for
10 minutes, and then check your measurements on the auto tensioner. If
it's out of spec, do it all over again! And don't get frustrated by the
number of times the friggin' cam gears snap back, thus forcing you to retime
them all over again! I think I had to do mine almost 10 times before
everything was within spec.
4. DON'T use the cams to crank the engine on the above step, because
you will cause your timing belt to jump. You MUST use the crank to turn
the cams--you can't use the cams to turn the crank.
5. DON'T over tighten the bolts to the water pump. They go into
soft aluminum, and are easily stripped. Follow the mfg torque specs, and
don't give them that extra "little bit."
6. Make sure you apply antifreeze to the O-Ring on the water
pipe. It makes it A LOT easier to install, and prevents the O-Ring from
crumbling up and squeezing out. You can't see if it's in right when the
pump is on, so this little additional step can save you a lot of time.
7. I used a General electronic caliper to take the measurements on
the auto tensioner. Now, you don't need to go to that extreme (the thing
cost me around $70), but I would use a caliper rather than trying to eyeball it
with a ruler. If you don't already have a caliper, chances are you have
thought about buying one in the past (am I right?), so now's your chance.
Make sure the one you get takes inside measurements, not just outside
measurements. Here's the one I used:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004T7UC/ref%3Dnosim/lksmsubsite-sub-th-asin-20/104-6824938-3743964
8. NO SHORTCUTS.
That's about all I can think of right now. Good luck!
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#148
***************************************
